Voice in the wilderness
February 16th, 2010I feel that with Christopher Hitchens and Bill Naher, I am a voice in the wilderness in not liking the nationalistic Olympic hysteria that surrounds me.
Hey, I like fun too, and watching skiing long jump competitions is exciting, but when I see all these people carrying flags I think “Nuremberg”. Nationalism, of which the Olympics is a clear and excessive example, is a force for evil. Nationalism is the excuse that allowed Mao to kill millions of Chinese. It is the force that enabled Nazism. It causes wars: it has killed as many people as religion.
So to celebrate nationalism, which seems to me the only point of the Olympics, is wrong. Our newspapers’ front pages are all about “Gold!”. Sad.
Now if we celebrated athletic achievement without regard to the athletes’ passports, that would be great.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am
I find that most immigrants are of the “one world” mind and dislike Canadians (in this instance) being proud of our country.
Well,. you too can protest…go to Vancouver and smash windows at The Bay store and push others around that do not agree with you!
February 17th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Now, now. I don’t dislike Canadians at all. Of course not. Why else would I be Canadian. And I enjoy looking at people enjoying themselves.
But yes, I am of the “one world” mind. And I dislike nationalism: flag-waving. And I dislike pushing around and smashing windows. That is exactly what nationalism leads to, all too often. You choose your examples well… “Kristallnacht” comes to my mind when you talk about smashing windows.
Nationalism is like religion. They can’t all be right (so by implication, they are most likely all wrong). There are, of course, good uses for grouping together people in a geographic group and calling then a country. Economies of scale. Law and justice, issuing passports, those things.
But take it beyond that, and you run the danger of nationalism taking a hold of people’s motivations. People joining armies to die in the politician’s wars. No, not all wars are unjust, of course not. Hitler had to be stopped. But think - Hitler got to power precisely because of nationalism.
So no: being against nationalism does not mean being against Canada, or Germany, or any other group of people. And it certainly does not mean pushing people around or smashing windows. Whatever gives you that idea!
February 17th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Well it was the anti Olympic group that was smashing windows and pushing people around…I will modify my immigrant statement from “most” to “many”…
I don’t think you can compare the enthusiastic response to the various team supporters to Nazi Germany type of your perception of Nationalism!
I thought for example, that the Chinese figure skating silver and gold awards were an outstanding achievement, and thought it was great that China had shared an Art or sport that was primarily western.
The Olympics are a great opportunity for each “nation” to share its athletic skills and achievements with the rest of the world.
This stuff about Hitler is so “last century”, you might as well use Ghengis Khan as an example!
That stuff is over…..use Iraq and Afghanistan now, as examples of what is wrong with the world!
February 17th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
Indeed, the enthused response is nothing close to what the Nazis did - of course not. That’s what I mean when I say “fun”. Of course the Olympics are fun. I watch downhill skiing, for one.
And your reaction is right: you should the achievement of enjoy whoever wins, whatever their passport. Unfortunately that is often not the case. I watch the games on both Canadian and US TV, and boy, are they ever focused on their “own” athletes…
I think that is because at the root, all nationalism is the same kind of thing: waving flags to say how great my nation is. By implication, that means other nations are not quite so great. I am not talking about any one nation. All the same. The Dutch with their Orange everything - glorifying the House of Orange, an unelected monarchy… brrr.
Ah yes, and in Afghanistan. I think it’s good “we” are there - if the people want us there. Of course they may not - for nationalist reasons.
And I am not saying that is all bad. If I saw foreign troops in my street I am pretty sure I’d fight them.
February 17th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
“And I am not saying that is all bad. If I saw foreign troops in my street I am pretty sure I’d fight them.”
I would open up a Tim Horton’s Franchise!
February 17th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
I think we will agree on this …
You can wave almost any flag in Canada, for almost any reason, and not go to jail for it!
February 17th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Absolutely. That’s one reason I live here: tolerance!
That, and Tim Horton’s.
February 17th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
I don’t support the Olympics either, but for a different reason: it’s going to cost our country $6 billion dollars during a recession.
The Olympics was originally supposed to cost no more than $660 million and make Canada over $10 billion. $6 billion later, the spending hasn’t ceased and Waterhouse Cooper estimates they’ll bring in more like $1 billion. The security budget is over $1 billion itself including $79 million for 3 cruise ships to house police, $29 million for new computers and $6 million for new radios and will include the largest military presence in British Columbia since World War II.
A vote was held in urban Vancouver, but the rest of province (who is now subsidizing billions of dollars) had no impact on the decision to host the Olympics; nor did Ontario who is now subsidizing at least $15 million.
Meanwhile 800 BC teachers have been laid off this year and a number of schools and hospitals have been closed in BC.
February 17th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
Mmm… who makes the radios?
February 19th, 2010 at 12:36 am
Its only money, and you can twist the “facts”any way to support your particular point of view..it will not make me any richer or poorer so I don’t care.
February 21st, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Afghanistan? I thought you were against Canadian troops being there based on your other posts.
I’m not really interested in the Olympics but it’s mostly because like everything else is, it is tainted with politics - and I don’t mean country politics - this old man’s club of the IOC. It sours it.
I don’t mind nationalism in the sense of being proud of your country’s success and supporting and sacrificing for that success (tax money into stem cell research, laws that protect civil liberties, sending our citizens on dangerous peace keeping missions) but I often hear people say I should support the Olympics because they show how the world can come together in the name of peace - this is a naive symbol - wars are still being fought while the athletes compete, people are dying from embargoes while we celebrate athletic victories…and though it’s not bad to celebrate Canada’s or any other country’s achievements, it’s implied that you’re a better Canadian if you wave the flag and brag about the athletes’ accomplishments. I don’t think that makes you a better Canadian than me….what about supporting scientific research or programs to make Canada and the world a better place? Sacrificing to help countries like Afghanistan or sending troops on peace missions. That’s being a good Canadian.
I guess what I’m saying is the Olympics are not bad, being proud (or embarrassed by) your country, is not bad. Making yourself feel good about the Olympics as an answer to world conflict or as an example that your country much better your country is in all things - that’s bad because it’s fallacious.
I don’t like the World Cup Soccer for the same reasons but it is much more pronounced in soccer. I like soccer as a sport but people don’t watch the teams for how good they are at that game - they only cheer for their country - you know how many times I’ve seen fights breaking out because of soccer and the various groups fighting one another? I wondered if these same people would even watch a Canadian soccer game - most likely no because they only care about their country of origin not the game itself.
From what I see, Canadians in general are very supportive of other countries during competitions. I see Canadians cheer for countries other than their own. Have you ever sat with Americans in competition? It’s not like that at all! I’ll give you an example - a non athletic one. When I visited Mauna Kea the tour guide mentioned that the Smithsonian telescope was from England (of course) and the people from England on the tour cheered. He then added that it was run by a Scotsman in Edinburgh. The people from England grumbled and made remarks so I cheered and clapped my hands. They looked at me funny. After that I thought it was so Canadian to cheer for the country that didn’t have any representation. And it’s not like Canada is not well represented at Mauna Kea with at least 3 telescopes there.
February 21st, 2010 at 7:00 pm
Indeed. But of course as a Macsomething you WOULD cheer at the Scottish element!
And yes, as you say: making yourself feel good about the Olympics as an answer to world conflict or as an example that your country is much better in all things - that’s bad because it’s fallacious.
I also feel that the whole country thing is outdated as an important identifier of “who we are”. As you say, you are defined by your Scottishness, and your Canadian-ness, but also by your astronomy-ness, and your classical-ness, and your IT-ness… and so on: the list goes on. So why do countries have armies, and IT-groups not? Why do countries issue passports, but astron9omers not?
To me, “country” is just one of many things that defines me. And cheering for an athlete because he has the same passport as me makes just as much sense as cheering for an athlete because like me, he is a photographer, or like me, he understands Linux. That does not diminish the country - it just makes it part of the mix of what makes me what I am.
February 21st, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Well, I disagree with identifying to Scotland because of my Mac something. I have no idea what my genetic background is and my name has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think the notion of country is outdated simply because and especially because banding together to protect resources as a tribe member, part of an ethnic group or country is something that has been going on before we branched off from the other primates and as sad as it is, it is only going to get worse. As resources dwindle as we pollute and breed ourselves off the planet, they will be guarded ever more closely. Don’t think America is eyeing our resources as we look to become another Africa.
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:03 am
Indeed.
Oh and another reason I think the Olympics are a silly way to be nationalistic is that to a large extent, results are simply proportional to country size. Obviously the US has a larger pool to choose from than, say, Zimbabwe, so will win more medals. Meaning zilch.
March 6th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
Well, I certainly would not expect Zimbabwe to be good at skiing, or hockey.
March 6th, 2010 at 11:51 pm
You wouldn’t expect them to be good at being Jewish, either, I suspect?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8550614.stm
March 7th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
What does that have to do with an international sports competition?
You sure know how to twist a story to suit your political beliefs!
Oh and by the way, my name is from my adoptive parents…neither Diana nor I have any Scottish ties!
Maybe Welsh, Irish, English, German, French and perhaps a smattering of New Zealand Maori, and perhaps a little bit of Jewish ancestry (for Diana)…me, just plain who knows?
March 7th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Actually, re the Zimbabwean Jews: I think that is a funny, and remarkable, story. Not a twisting of anything.
As for ancestry - that is surely kind of the point? We all share common ancestors and history and genes. Which is why saying “I am nation X (which probably did not exist a few hundreds years ago) and that makes me special” is such a misguided thing. It seems to me that we should all try to be members of the human tribe, not of a local tribe.